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Discuss all things tuning in this section. News, products, problems and results.
I have a question for you.Is there any tool available that can datalog a vehicle with an OEM Ecu?I will describe what exactly I want to do.
Let's assume that I have gone from stage 1 to stage 2 and installed a bigger turbo etc.Is there any tool that I can plug in OBD port and do some runs on rolling road and after the run to be able to check boost,ignition,knock etc?(graphs maybe or values that can be stored to excel and make a graph).If I had increased my turbo 300 mbar at stage 1, what parameters should I take care of so to be able to increase the gains of my vehicle?EGT,lambda,ECT,oil pressure,boost pressure,wastegate duty cycle etc?Thanks for your time.
There's a lot of tools u can use to do this any good obd scanner should let u log data , something like a autel maxisys would be more then capable
Thanks Chris.It is too expensive for me but it is a good option.If you can provide me some information about the procedure to tune an engine more and what parameters to monitor it would be great.Thanks anyway
All the information you need for tuning is in the course content and also the webinars and articles sections of the site.
If it's an OBDII system your working with there is a huge market of tools you can choose from, personally I have the Autel Maxi but I run a full diagnostic service at the shop. Other options would be a Bluetooth connector and some of the apps for your phone, innovative have a box of tricks that also uses OBDII.
It would help more if you let us know which marque your looking at tuning, is it VAG, Opel/Vauxhall, BMW, Japanese?
Thanks for your reply mate.I worked as a proffesional tuner for 4 months for a company but I have never developed my own file on a dyno and I think it's time to do it.I will start with some vehicles from Vag group I think.VAG COM is the appropriate tool for these vehicles if I am correct.The thing is that I have used dataloggers to analyze engine's performance on standalone units.You suggested me to attend courses,articles and webinars.The truth is that I have gained a lot from webinars and courses.My problem is that I dont know the procedure for developing a file on an OEM ECU.Do you make changes,then you plug in your diagnostic tool,make a run and analyze the results?The diagnostic tools that I have used werent able to produce curves or to save data and store it to excel.Do I have to check boost,EGT etc while I do the run?Isn't it possible to datalog a vehicle like we can do with the standalones' dataloggers(like Andre does on webinars).Thanks again but I am a little confused on that part.I am an electrical and computer engineer not mechanichal engineer and the part of developing,for example, a file for 2.0 golf is new for me.I want to test several engines so to be able to make custom files and not files that I will copy to each same engine/ecu type ;)
I use Scan XL from Palmer performance and a OBD Bluetooth plug for generall loggin on recent cars. I checked alot other tools and felt this one is the best around. You can do datalogs like on Standalone ECU's and look at them in many different ways.
If you want to write your own files you ned some hardware to flash it and a software to modified the file. An example for that is Alientech K-Tag and the Software ECM Titanium. You van also dissasemble the files by your self. The most common software for that is Win OLS.
For Data logging modern ECU's I tend to use a marque specific diagnostic. Since you mentioned VW then it would be VAGCOM.
I'm not a VAG tuner so here's how I'd tackle it. I'd be looking at getting a baseline recording to see which tables are used initially, record what the ECU see's from it's sensors and compare them to what I record on the dyno. You need to explore the entire ECU as some of the coding is repeated in other areas of the ECU, adjustments in one area but not another will result in conflict and issues.
Golf's use wide band lambda sensors so the AFR's should read exactly what is going on, make sure that you understand what each of the values in the table represent, something like one of the software's I use the timing table has values of 52 in it, this gives 26 degrees of advance.
Once you understand the ECU and how it works you can then start modifying it, initially I go for fuelling make sure the fuelling adjusts richer when and by how much I ask it to, once I have the fuelling sorted I'll move onto timing, trying to reach MTBT. Only once I've done all of that will I begin tuning boost.
I have seen power graphs from some modern car remappers and their power graphs before and after mirror each other, this to me screams that the boost has been turned up and nothing else adjusted, quick and easy money but is it doing the job right?
I've started using the Delphi OBDII diagnostic tool ... works pretty well on a wide range of cars and can log data on a SD Card, very handy.
Your posts are so informative guys.Thanks a lot for your interest.I have used Kess v2 and K-tag + Winols-ECM-Map3d-Swifteck for modifying files.I know how to make reliable and good files but they are not so aggresive.For example. my file for golf 2.0 has gains of 45hp,70Nm but I have seen graphs for the same engine and modifications for 110hp.I have no idea if these graphs are true or if the vehicle blew up but I want to develop my files more.And your info are great.In turbo gasoline engines.to be honest.I dont increase the ignition at all because it's risky(you can advance 1-2 degrees without problem but usually I dont make any changes).What's your opinion on that?Thanks again,I really appreciate your help guys
I am too working with OEM ECU - all changes i do in Winols. - Read write - Alientech Kess and Ktag, EVC BDM, Magic Motorsport X17.
P.S. I would recomend to register @ www.ecuconnections.com that is forum about chiptuning.
Here this forum is more based on standalone ecu tuning.
Thanks for the info Rolis.
I know that this place is for standalone but I like the way Andre approaches tuning so that's why I am asking on this forum.They know about OEM as well.And tuning is the same for both systems ;) I will join www.ecuconnections.com. Have you participated in the training courses that you posted?They seem really good-especially for Winols- but first I dont have a big budjet to spend on this training now( and most of the time the ask for a lot of money and the information is the basic only) and secondly I am not able to travel to their place
Everything costs money ;)
I recomend to take trainings, because training is less expensive than damaged engine.
I have participated! And I can tell that it is worth that!
I started with 3 day course, when I was back home, I imediately tuned 3 cars by myself with winols and they still run today without problems.
You can start learning by Yourself, but that will be very time consuming and, posible with problems and bad tuning.
OEM ECU everything is different! For example in diesels could be aprox 10 drivers wish, 8 rail pressure, 4 torque limiters, 15 boost maps, injection maps etc etc...
Mate I have tuned more than 200+ vehicles for a company that I used to work(I had to resign and go back to Greece because of a family problem) and I have to start on my own.But my files(company's approach) were for stage 1 +.Not more than that.That's why I am asking,because I want to develop my files.I have tuned all Bosch EDC15,16,16+,17 and ME7,MED9.1,MED17 etc, Siemens Simos,SID etc, Visteon,Motorolla,Marelli,Delphi,Denso(hate them :) ).So I know the basics especially in diesel engines.But I want to improve.So that's what I want to know.Does it worth to pay that money for this training?Or should I join just Winols training?Because I used ECM,Map 3d,Swifteck,RACE and Roamrider/EcuFlash.Never used Winols.Just demo version on my own and all tuners say that it's the best and the most cheap file writing software
We've also purchased the Kess v2 and KTag about 1 month ago, so i'm just starting to get used to it. Coming from a standalone point of view, it's a bit different since you have to find out why one map thoes this and that, but you get used to that. Interesting seeing the results, but going different directions when compared to a standalone.
I've done a couple petrol engines but no diesel yet. Do you both know of any quality sources I can read into diesels first, before doing a training?
First of all you have to read how a diesel engine works(the principles) but probably you already know that.So,from my point of view,diesel engines are much easier to be tuned because you dont have ignition.You have to tune torque limiter,injection(which produces the power),turbo pressure control,turbo threshold and rail pressures if needed.(Driver's request/wish as well).I dont have any papers to suggest you.Sorry for that.I am here to help with maps as far as I can
anything to read on diesel AFR ratios? ;)
Unfortunately, I don't have anything to suggest.Hope someone else can.I can suggest you internal combustion engine by Heywood but it's mostly for engineers and to understand deeply the engine principles.But there are lots of useful things in that book.I think it is a bible for internal combustion engines.He analyzes diesel engines very well.So give it a try if you want to and skip the mathematics if you dont like them.
Lots of interesting information on this.
Palmer Performance has a decent selection if you're employing obd2 information logging. if not, AEM AQ-1 is a tap in system that reads digital and analog inputs to determine what is going on,
I'm curious where this thread goes. Supposedly WinOLS is what is used to edit maps for the ME2.8 certain Mercedes' use. most reflashes for the car run excessively rich up top to try and compensate for high iat's from a roots supercharger system, and for a fuel system being pushed to its limit.
@Mitchdetailed So mate because I didnt get it very well.What do you suggest from the 2 for developing a file on a dyno?AEM AQ-1(you said that you can view all the digitals and analog inputs which means you can be aware of every sensor with that tool while doing a ramp run).For ME2.8 I have done some but I used Map3D and ECM.I didnt create my own mappack yet on Winols so they are not the best files around.