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Discussion and questions related to the course MoTeC M1 Software Tutorial
Hoping this is the correct place to post this question let me know other wise.
I am currently working with a friend to tune his BRZ (86 Toyota guys) and he has gotten a hold of the motec m150 with the harness and is running the 86 GP package. He has also currently ordered a set of SARD ITB’s for the engine. We wish to run the set up with out the surge tank so we can experiment with different length velocity stacks. Not running with the MAF is also desirable in this instance as it is not a street car and is on a path for time attack racing.
In the current package we are using is it possible to eliminate the MAF sensor and run Alpha N setup or will I need to be getting into an M1 build licence and start to modify the package?
If M1 build is required does any one have resources or places one may contact to get in to purchasing a licence and begin learning the process of working with this? Or will I need to be an authorized motec dealer to begin using this software?
Any and all info would be great. I under stand many of you offer services to do this for us but there is a very high desire to learn it.
Have you asked Motec directly?
If it's not a street car, I would just trade the '86 license for the normal GPA or GPR package, which does not use the MAF sensor for air-mass calculation (you can keep the MAF and use it to verify that your Air Mass calculate agrees with the sensor).
If you did want to build your own custom package, then you would purchase an M1 Build License and have access to the code used in GPA / GPR but with build you can change it, or extended it as necessary. For example, one common thing with ITBs is the desire to change the Efficiency table axis to be TPS -- just a few key clicks and you have that.
You do not need to be a MoTeC dealer to purchase and/or use M1 Build, however there is very little training on using Build available. Your best bet it work with a MoTeC dealer who has M1 Build experience and is willing to help you get started and will be there to answer questions as you are learning.
Good Luck with your project, let me know if I can be of any help
Veracity Racing Data
First of all the 86 package doesn't use the MAF sensor for fuel/ignition calculations. It is there simply for logging purposes as well as providing the IAT sensor. The standard package uses MoTeC's VE-based fuel model which relies on a the MAP sensor.
You can run the engine with TPS as the load axis to work with your itb's with a bit of a work around (unfortunately in the production packages you can't directly select TPS as the load axis). You'll need to set the Inlet Manifold Pressure Mode to 'Estimate', and then the ECU will infer manifold pressure value from the Inlet Manifold Pressure Estimate table. The Y axis for this table is throttle position so you can set a 3D table of MAP vs TPS and RPM. At it's simplest you could set this up as a simple 2D table with just the TPS axis and a 1:1 relationship (ie 0%TPS = 0 kPa and 100% TPS = 100 kPa) which obviously isn't going to be realistic but should give you an understanding of how the table works.
Thanks Dave and Andre.
If removing the MAF i should be able to connect an after market IAT sensor to the wiring of the MAF plug Then just adjust the values in the ECU for the new sensor correct?
Yes that's correct. You also have a number of spare inputs on the M150 so you could chose to use a spare AT input for a manifold temp sensor.
Our throttle bodies have finally arrived for the BRZ and I have finished my M1 course and I am interested in the manifold estimate table you spoke of Andre.
Currently, I cannot seem to get the throttle area table to have an RMP axis. Is this not an option with the BRZ GP?
Also IF I am able to get an RPM axis where exactly in my process of tuning would populating the table fit in? We also have variable length runner to test and optimize as well. My current thought was as follows
-Set Inlet Manifold Pressure Mode to Estimate and use a 2D no linear table. Would ambient pressure relative also be the best mode for inlet manifold estimate mode?
-Set a Specified Runner length
-tune cam control, fuel, and timing to optimal for that runner length
-change runner length then repeat till optimal length is found
-once we had decided on a runner length and it had been tuned would I then populate a 3D throttle area table if I can and then retune fuel and ignition tables?
Thank you for all the insight. We will be doing quite a bit of testing on the dyno and would like to make sure the ECU is set 100% correct to avoid wasting potentialyl a lot of time
Quick correction. I found Inlet manifold Pressure estimate main table. This is the table I wish to use and need to know where in the process is best to tune it as we do have a vacuum tank is the system with a pressure sensor. NOT throttle area. I do now have a question regarding throttle area table. Will the throttle area table need to be chaged or calibrated as well?
What standard OEM functionality (air con, cruise, dash, etc) is remaining in the vehicle? If this is all being stripped out, then trading in the Toyota 86 licence for GPR as David suggested will be a better option as the GP Packages are more flexible, and have been updated compared to the Toyota Packages.
If you are retaining the OEM systems, then the Toyota 86 Engine Swap Package will be suitable, this is GPR with the Toyota 86 functionality in the Package.
Are you running the Drive by Wire throttle still, or have you converted to cable?
We do still have all other oem finctions running except AC and the airbags.
The sard itbs will be running drive by wire throttle control.
Is using the map estimate table no longer possible or is it just seen as time consuming and troublesome?
Using Map Estimate is possible, it works better if you can get a valid MAP signal into the M1 to set it up, but if you can do that, then you would just stick with it anyway.
My issue with it is that it is just an estimate, it isn't so bad up the top end of the engine's range, but in the transient and partial throttle opening areas, then you can have situations where the same throttle position will have different amounts of load, that are not always able to be accommodated.
We do have a map sensor setup we can use to setup the estimate table. There is a vacuum resivour with lines run to each throttle body. So we are able to use that to fill in the table and i will use a 3D table.
My biggest question, i guess, is filling in that table should be done AFTER getting throttle runner length and cam timing dialed in but BEFORE tuning the VE and main ignition tables?
Definitely setup the inlet runners and cam timing before doing any tuning, otherwise you will need to retune the M1 after making these changes.