Sale ends todayGet 30% off any course (excluding packages)
Ends in --- --- ---
Discuss all things tuning in this section. News, products, problems and results.
Could anyone suggest an ECU able to run V12 engine with 12 independent ignition coils, not a wasted spark?
I am getting closer to installation of the 1GZ engine into my BRZ and ECU question is very important for me now as I need time to source the hardware and prepare the wiring loom.
Originally this engine was running on two ECUs but it is to complex task to make it work in the different car.
I would be grateful for any help on this matter.
A MoTeC M150 or M190 will do it, and can control the cams. Are you using Drive-By-Wire?
Yes, forgot to mention. It is double throttle DBW layout.
Link G4 Thunder can also handle 12 cylinders if I remember it correctly...
There are other options you can have, if you find you can't find an ECU that does full sequential for the engine - or if it's exobitantly expensive!
Run it as a two six cylinder engines with two independent ECUs, like the OEM setup. While this may seem complex, most of the same work will need to be done whatever method you use.
Run it in semi-sequential form with the intake, and exhaust, camshaft controls running the heads in parallel and the ECU firing the injectors for half the fueling on each revolution with each ignition control switching two coils as for each cylinder at firing there will be another on the exhaust stroke.
Why are you against wasted spark? What do you think you are missing out on? Obviously it limits your ECU choice a lot, so it may be worth considering if it really is requirement. In general it is not until you get above about 8000RPM that you may start to run out of cycle time for long dwell and spark duration with wasted spark systems.
The Olivecrona 1GZ is still wasted spark with a Link making around 750Hp @ 9500RPM when it was naturally aspirated and now over 1000Hp at low boost still wasted spark.
Ah, had just remembered that - there was an extensive article on the engine, and build, in RaceCar Engineering a couple of years ago, if you can track down a copy.
This was in the suggestion box, which may also be of interest - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt8iWnrzodc
Great videos about V12 Supra building process - I've seen all of them. They are under manufacturing of real intake and exhaust manifold based on plastic models printed on 3D printer. Unfortunately I didn't hear anything about ECU planed to be installed and its definitely should be something similar to what I need. That project has even 4 fuel rails and 24 injectors!))
Doing a researches for the last few days I am coming to a use of waste spark ignition most likely, if Adaptronic guys will not offer me what I am looking for. Fuel injectors can be paralleled, so no problem. Two DBW throttle control is also possible to find within after market ECU..
How about 4 knock sensors? As I understand they should have individual inputs and I do not see any maker is offering more than 2?
Again, the MoTeC M150 and M190 offer 4 knock inputs, can drive both DBW throttle bodies, individual coil triggers for 12 cylinders. What's not to like?
Price is always a concern, but you know my opinion - if the 'cheaper' alternative doesn't do what you need, it's one of the most expensive things you can buy.
Most of the larger and (arguably) more motorsports oriented ecosystems all will support that with their upper tier offerings. David mentioned Motec's M1s that will support it, Emtron has their kv12, Lyfe/syvecs I believe have theirs, and George mentioned that Link has an option but I'm not familiar.
Generally at that level of support/build quality I find its most important (if you're doing it yourself) that you're familiar with the software and find it enjoyable and flexible to use. If you're paying someone else, obviously it'd be whatever they're most comfortable with so long as you get the feature set you want.
Still waiting for Adaptronic response. I've just realised that Andy, who worked before for Adaptronic is at Haltech now, what makes me think I won't get quick answer from sales and support.
Reviewing my targets I can say that I definitely don't want to run V12 as 2 independent engines. This leading me to get rid of 2 MAF sensors and replace them with MAP as well as switching to one DBW throttle, after new intake plenum manufactured. We stick to 6 wasted spark coils as per OEM design and 12 injectors paralleled. However I still worried about 4 knock sensors) Can it be practical to connect one from each bank front and rear to ECU and other two to independent knock monitor, just in case? Or maybe there are some user specific inputs at certain ECUs which can be utilised for this purpose?
Haltech adsorbed Adaptronic, buying Andy out as owner and employing him as technical lead. You should still get a decent response from them. Given many of the excuses capable of running the engine will have windowed knock monitoring per cylinder, do you think you really need 2 per bank? I'm far from experienced but a lot of OEM'S whose tunes ride the knock limit, fuel dependent only run one sensor per bank?
With the knock sensors, you may be putting too much emphasis on there being four - if I understand the OEM configuration correctly, each ECU would have used two for monitoring. So, if you run two individual ECUs, which you seem to have decided against, you could copy that - if using a single ECU, you could probably just use two or, if there is support, all four.
MoTeC M150 with the Toyota 86 Engine Swap Package loaded, so that you also retain the factory OEM functionality in the vehicle, if you so want.
This is my First Post please excuse me if I'm not putting it in the right place, however @aconis the factory ecu's are linked to each other and talk to each other but independently manage their respective bank of cylinders. Toyota has been doing this for sometime with segregating banks of cylinders and managing them independently.
We have seen that the Haltech Nexus R5 can manage the 1GZ V12 with sequential injection and independent ignition. You only need 2 knock sensors when tuning with an aftermarket ECU, are you running this N/A or boosting your application?
We actually 3D scanned the 1GZFE (4) separate times with various parts removed:
1. Full scan of the engine with all accessories and intake components etc attached
2. Removing the plastic intake tubes infront of the throttle bodies, removing the A/C compressor (and idler pullies that complete that circuit for the serpentine belt)
3. Further removing the rest of the accessories, except the crank pulley.
4. Further removing the exhaust manifold.
We have also 3D scanned the FRS engine bay from the front support all the way back to the differential to get all of the information to make swaps much easier. So far we have completed the FRS to LSX, FRS to K-series, and I will attach (if it is possible with this forum) FRS to 1GZ screenshot to show you how little room you really have.
The 1GZFE actually fits in the FRS BRZ FT86 chassis if you route the wiring harness a different way (other than the rear of the intake area), if you hammer the wiper cowl for the passenger side valve cover just slightly, remove the exhaust manifolds (passenger side fits except the O2 sensor), (Exhaust manifolds will need to be re-worked especially on driver side for the steering column) remove EGR tubes as well and then re-route the OEM heater circulation lines coming off of the back of heads. Also you will need to create a inward facing clutch master cylinder because that shoots right into the USDM driver's side valve cover area. Hood clearance is not possible with the factory hood unfortunately.
other than that, it fits pretty good, check out the attached screen shots for reference.
IIRC, Hartley Engines have done some work on this engine, one of which was fitted to a drift car here a few years back. Can't recall the details, though, sorry.
Hey @Gord I'm actually working with Nelson from Hartley to bring the bigger bits to the US to start making these engines a little more powerful. We are trying to get a street friendly Cams, retainers, buckets, springs, forged Pistons and rods package for over 500whp customers that don't want to initially go dry-sump. From there we are working out the 550whp+ customers looking to do a full race setup on E85 and such. I'll keep you guys posted when I start getting parts in or when I machine my own..
The information you have shared is just great! I am wondering if by any chance you have a scan of engine from the drive end side as I can’t get it anywhere to send it to a company who can make and adapter plate for Getrag manual gearbox.
That's actually what we do for a living what specific gearbox do you want it to go to? 420 G?
I have a 5 speed gearbox from 3.0d E39, but I believe it has same bolt pattern as the one you mention. Have you got some adapters developed for 1GZ engine?
We are currently finishing one to use with the 350Z 6 speed transmission. From there we'll probably do a T56 and then an 8hp system as well.
I’ve seen ready solutions to match 1GZ-FE with CD009 and R154 but these gearboxes require some tunnel modifications which I want to avoid. T56 can be a way to go though, as it seems to be more slim.
Could you share your contact or drop me a Line on email@example.com?