If it's not really about tuning or wiring. Then it belongs in here.
Hello Andre and friends...
After a discussion with a workmate and knowing people here would have experience with a wide variety of engines just curious what everyone's favourite engine is?
Not talking in stock form here, but say you wanted to build a 800 - 1000rwhp engine which engine would you choose?
And why? and why wouldn't you choose another of the popular engines? what are the pros and cons of various motors i.e.
RBxx (RB26, RB34)
You should define - build for what? and for who)))
I'm not sure there's an answer here Viper? It's way too subjective - Everyone has their favourite for various reasons.
I'm a Mitsubishi guy at heart and I've built several 1000 whp 4G63s. I wouldn't strictly recommend that engine as a reliable base though. At those sort of power levels any 4 cylinder 2.0 (ish) litre engine is going to be severely stressed.
With the lack of background you've given to the decision making, I'd personally pick the LSX - Well proven, cheap aftermarket parts, and plenty of displacement which means it isn't going to be too stressed punching out 1000 whp and will still offer a wide power band and good road manners. The 2JZ would be next on my list and is obviously well proven in 1000 + whp applications.
I've had a lot to do with the RB26 in a drag application, peaking at around 1500-1600 whp on a dynapack but they are an expensive engine to get to that level and imho a little more fragile and fussy than the 2JZ - RB fan boys will likely have a different view though ;)
Cubes win this argument every time if there are no boundaries.
Agree with Andre, 400+ cube iron block LS, some boost and happy days.
4cyl, 4G63 every day, but above 200hp/cyl you have to understand the limitations on these things.
Realistically, if I were ever going to build a 800-1000whp engine it'd probably be a VR38 - partly because there has already been so much development on them already and that power range is a known quantity in terms of how reliable and how usable you can make that power, partly because I am a bit of a Nissan fanboi but I know that doing that with an RB is a bit of a silly idea if you want to use it, and partly because the VR38 comes in one of the only cars I'd want to actually make 800-1000whp in so I'd get the motor as part of the package ;)
It's not necessarily my favourite performance motor but I don't really have one outright - it depends on my mood and what I'd want to use it for really, and I do think it ticks a LOT of my boxes.
Does anyone have the wheight of these populare engines? Think the power-wheight ratio is one of the most important things in any form of motorsport.
From my experience, the 4g63 Mivec are the best 4 cylinder engine around. Very good powerband and very reliable (If tuned right). They have very good head designe and a strong block. Big head ports from factory which flows well and good valve train which can rev in standard trim to 8000rpm and modified 10000rpm+. Of course at powerlevels above 600whp, there is a lot stress on the parts and the service times gets down. The 4g64 block are stronger and recommended above 800whp.
...At this place, I wondering which block Andre has used in his drag car?
The RB engines need alot modifcation for very high power outputs. One of the biggest flaw are the small rod bearings. The get eaten in a very short time if you run above 700whp. That's also a problem on the SR20det and CA18det.
The standart oil pump gearing don't like very high rpm's and hard rev limiters, the gear can break.
If you want a reliable engine on this power level, you need more displacement, to bring the stresslevel to the parts down.
The VQ35HR and VR38 are very great engines and offer a wide power level.
Of course the LSx should also be great, but personally I don't have experience with them.
Pratt & Whitney J58...
Yeh wasn't so much looking for advice for a specific application, just wanted to create a discussion about the pros and cons of each motor
I'm in the camp of if you want more HP you want more capacity.
I have a soft spot for Pontiac V8s, it isn't difficult to build a 600HP 455+ cube engine and these engines don't have the development that the Gen1, Gen2, Gen3 and Gen4 Chevrolet Small blocks do.
If I was going for outright HP I'd go for an LSx. If I was going for decent streetable (meaning the engine has usable torque) HP I'd go a decent sized (400+ cubic inches) V8 (something like a old Ford Boss engine but using new technology like roller cams, alloy heads, EFI etc).
I've never liked peaky engines so they just don't figure in my estimation.
@Adrian, I was using a stock EVO 1-3 block in my drag car and had pretty good reliability from the actual block - I broke a couple but mainly because I was trying something dumb that didn't work out (like the time I fitted 7/16 main studs in place of the stock 10 mm studs and cracked every main journal in the engine). My block was however solid filled which kind of rules it out for road use unless you like to stop every 400 metres :)
We used a stock EVO 8 block in the late model EVO we built that held the world record and that still ran water in the block. We made 1001 whp with that engine and never had a block failure.
@Lith there's no argument about the effectiveness of the VR38 however I feel some of it's spectacular results are achieved due in part to a decent amount of displacement and being mated in the aftermarket to some great turbo technology. When we were researching head/port designs for a billet CNC head to go on a Dubai based sand drag car the VR38 head was my first choice. I quickly got turned away from it by those who had developed porting programs for the VR38 already. By all accounts it's a competent head design but far from the best - Interestingly if we had continued the project, the K20A head was the pick of the crop which may be no surprise to anyone who has tuned a K series Honda with a decent size turbo.
That being said the LSX would hardly make the list of top 10 best engineered/most advanced engines in the world - What it lacks in technology it simply smoothers with cubic inches and cheaply available parts :)
I think personally I've always liked the challenge of squeezing insane amounts of power out of a small displacement engine. For me the challenge of holding a 4G63 together at 1100+ whp, 50+ psi boost and 10,500+ rpm makes me smile - Provided I pull it off of course... I'm happy to admit that particular combination is basically useless short of the drag strip, or for internet bragging rights though. If I wanted an engine to actually live with on a daily basis then displacement and more cylinders would be the order of the day.
Interesting, Ok how about this... Considering this was where the initial conversation with my friend is where it all stemmed from.
He has a GU Nissan Patrol... Currently has a RD28 (2.8L Diesel) in it but he bought it with the intention of fitting a High HP RB25 Engine to it... since its a offroader, big wheels, heavy car and running through thick mud and sand it would be seeing high loads for extended periods of time so we were leaning more towards a RB30/25 combo or even a RB34 Stroker for the extra down low Torque.
But then still a little worried it may be too much for the RB and if he should just put a LS engine in... but everyone puts LS into everything so is a little boring and un-unique. Which got us thinking about other engines...
But by the sounds of it a LS is the way to go in regards to bang for buck value...
It's a catch 22. On one hand it's hard to stand out from the crowd if you do the same thing everyone else is doing. On the other hand there is a reason everyone is doing that particular thing...
For offroad in particular I'd favour low rpm torque and it's hard to beat a V8 in this department. The LS is still an expensive engine though but that might be evened out a little by the ability to buy conversion parts cheaply off the shelf (I'll admit I have no idea how commonly the LS is swapped into that chassis though), versus making everything from scratch.
This is now a very different discussion Viper. If you want to be different I'd fit a Nissan V8 if it had to be petrol but now you have told us it is an off roader I'd be going for a diesel. You have a couple of options which in Nissans are both fairly common now. You could fit a 6.5 litre (supercharged) diesel OR you could go the whole hog and fit a 6.6 litre Duramax. Now the Duramax is a stunning engine and it can be tuned using EFILive but for simplicities sake I'd go with the old school 6.5.