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Dry sump question

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HI

i, I saw the practical engine building course and the dry sump webinar and I have some questions. Im building a 3rz engine and I will install a dry sump pump to it. The questions are,

1. What I do with the stock oil pick up tube? It should be sealed?

2. What I do to the stock oil pump?

3.How I connect the oil from the dry sump oil filter to the engine block? I saw is connected to de stock oil filter goes in the block but there are 2 orifices, one for the pump and one for the oiling system of the engine, I use both or just the one that goes to the oiling system of the engine?

thanks, Frank

The first question is "do you need it, and why?". When I wrote that, I was unaware of just what people have achieved with the tough little engine, but question still stands.

A quick search didn't come up with much, except an oil pan/sump - https://www.lceperformance.com/Oil-Pan-2RZ-3RZ-Dry-Sump-Oil-Pan-No-Sump-p/1016060.htm , it may be worth giving them a call for any other stuff they have to help with the conversion, and this integrated setup - https://www.daileyengineering.com/toyota/toyota-3rz/

For the most part, it would seem you will need to do most of the development work yourself, and it ISN'T something I would recommend to someone asking these questions, as it can be quite a big job for the inexperienced.

1/ Usual practice it to use either a frost/core/casting plug of the correct size, or thread it and use a threaded plug to seal it.

2/ Depends on the engine - looks like it uses a crank mounted pump, I'd leave the centre in place as it's required to space the front damper/pulley assembly, but I'd remove the outer ing as it isn't needed.

3/ the oil is fed from the prssure wafer of the pump to the centre of the filter housing - as the oil feed from the original pump will need to be blocked, to prevent oil leaks and dirt engering, it is common practice to use an adaptor.

Ok thanks alot!!

There was an article on the NORAD drag car that was supposed to have info' on the dry sump setup in part 3 or 4, but it seemed to be missed out.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/project-car/turp-0405-3rz-motor-toyota-celica-norad/

Yes I saw that, before posting I searched on the internet but nothing showed on the stock pump and the setup. The purpose of converting it to dry sump is that I have a friend that I tune his sand drag car with a 3rz engine and those engine once you start to rev it past 7000 rpm the stock pump do not offer enough oil flow and the bearings start to wear very fast. I talked to people that are using this engine for racing and are running 6.9 in the 1/4 mile and told me that anything past 600hp or very high rpm will have the same problem I have with this engine.I also in the process of building the engine of my race car and wanted to resolve the problem on this engine before I encounter this again on other engines.

The engine is naturally aspirated and I rev it to 8400 rpm since the valvetrain documentation says 8500 rpm max, but I see a oil pressure drop after 7800 rpm just like the people running this engine on drag cars told me. One of them "Jenny is back starlet" even show me some pictures of how is installed, just needed the details on the previous post to complete the job. Thanks.

They sound like some fun builds, going to post in the projects forum?

It isn't unusual to have problems develop at very high rpm, well, much higher than the OEM rpm, with many engines.

In most cases it is a problem with cavitation/oil supply to the pump. If you strip the pump you may find some parts of the inlet (and outlet) are restrictive and can be blended to smooth out the oil flow through the pump assembly, you may also be able to open up the various oil ways and even fit a larger pickup tube and 'foot' (can't think of correct term at the mo') - perhaps modifying the latter from a proper race pump pickup for a different engine (SB Chev'?).

In some cases, it's a relatively simple problem of insufficient oil pressure to overcome the centrifugal force in the main bearings and supply sufficient oil volume to the big end bearings. In the unlikely event you haven't done so, try raising the pressure with shims/spacers under the pressure relief spring.

There are many on-line 'guides' for doing this to the more common Honda engines, but same principle applies.

Oh, it seems that engine is available with different sump setups for different chassis, were you using a rear sump version as I've always been a bit sus' of front sumps for drag cars.

The engine that had the problem is a rear sump system. I will install an external oil pump I just bought one used the gears looks good, It was installed on a v8 engine. As for modifying the stock system, it had the shims installed by the previous engine builder and on disassembly we fond even lose bolts on the timing chain tensioner, so the quality of the job performed was not the best.I can assume for the marks on the cylinders and worn bearings clearances was not checked, I have to measure all the parts. I want to make sure this will be a reliable engine so he can use it at the race track and be reliable. I have a race car in the works is my personal car with the sabe engine but I will use it turbo with methanol fuel. I can post some photos of them later I have more photos of his car than mine because mine is still apart for fabrication.

I really appreciate the help , I learned a lot here ,I been tuning cars since 2005 when I got my fist car and all the courses here help me understand more what I do as a side job and hobby.

It's all learning, sometimes it's something you hadn't thought of, sometimes it's correcting a mis-conception, sometimes it's a better way of doing something, sometimes something else.

I hadn't thought of that engine as being a 'performance' one, but I have certainly had it's potential pointed out to me while doing that research :-)