Engine will not start huge Trig1 error count

Hi Everyone, could i have a little help please.

Long storey short i have a fully built race engine 3SGTE in a Toyota GT4, its sat in the garage now for 8 years my son now wants to start using it however we can not get this thing to start.

Its on a Link G4 plus Fury ECU the trig 1 error count is off the charts, I've had it running on cylinder 1 and 3 briefly today i felt exhaust manifold cylinder 2 and 4 were stone cold (firing order 1,3,4,2). Log data files show when cranking the rpm is up to 8000rpm. I know all sensors are correct and i have the correct fuel pressure and injector data. All coil packs are doing coil pack things and sparking to the correct cylinder.

I'm seeing Trig 1 and 2 signal when cranking however engine crank count seems to reset after 2 engine cycles. I've removed the wiring to the trig 1 and 2 sensors and completed a continuality test to make sure we have no damage or bad connections and they are all fine and they are wired the correct way round.

Any ideas will be greatly received, I've attached both ecu file and data log from my last attempt.

Could you scope the triggers please and post that.

Also could you please list all relevant mods

Ignition, trigger, sensors and such

I’d be happy to remote log in and see if I can help figure out what’s going on.

Good morning,

Please see below a couple of trigger files taken last week i will do a new one today and issue later on, as i have watched loads of Andre's webinars this week and changed a few settings.

The spec of the engine was built with the help of ex TRD racing mechanics and is a close to the original Group B WRC designed engine before they were banned from rallying (some parts were not available so new designed parts were used instead). Car was originally built for the UK time attack series however never used as i got offered a seat elsewhere.

Cylinder Head: -

Supertech dual value springs 77lb force, retainer kits and 6mm keepers. Oversized supra 30mm exhaust values and 34.5mm oversized intake values all black nitride. 6mm polyacrylic intake and viton exhaust value seals. Brian Crower intake and exhaust value guides 6mm manganese silicon ali bronze. Kelford 270 degree cams intake and exhaust, HKS adjustable cam gear, APR CA625+ head stud bolts. Cometic custom head gasket to reduce compression ratio to 8.7:1. 3SGTE gen 3 full race cylinder head machined to except new cam lobes, corrective machine seating of value springs and cam carriers - gas flowed cylinder head and revised machined oil ways.

Block:-

Moroso racing oil sump (however wish now we went dry sump due to aero). ACL race main and rod bearings +.5mm, Clevite thrust washer and Cometic bottom end gasket kit. Pro-Gram billet main caps, CP pistons 86.5mm, Brian Crower BC625+ H beam con rods. OEM crank lightened and balanced, OEM oil pump from the gen 2 engine re-machined to receive the 25 tooth gear from the gen 3 engine, with gen 2 oil pick up. Gen 3 block machine to except custom Westwood ductile iron sleeves and finally we moved and re-machined the oil filter location.

Engine Dress: -

Oil cooler, catch tank, race spec radiator, 184mm twin plate clutch, 4kg flywheel and ARP flywheel bolts. Turbo GTX3582R with Tial 44mm wastegate. Full race 44mm turbo exhaust manifold ceramic coated. cold 8 rated plugs and ID1000 injectors. Bosch 90mm ethrottle and OBP pedal box, ATS fuel rail and Aeromotive regulator, 450lph in tank lifter pump to swirl pot and 1000hp rated aeromotive external pump pushing fuel forwarded from lifter pump, AN18 fuel lines feed and return. Due to the requirement to run constant anti lag the brake servo was removed due to the reduced engine vacuum.

Electrics: -

Link G4 plus Fury

Gearbox: -

5 Speed sequential with option of gear cut on strain gauge (not connected)

Trigger: -

As far as the trigger scope are concerned both crank and cam are Hall sensors and the crank is a 36-1 tooth-missing but i have no idea what they mean.

KO Racing i would be very pleased if you can remote in (did not even think that was possible) and would happily pay for your services, I'm in the UK and we are about 5-6 hours in front of you.

Sorry just to add, top dead centre was set using a dual gauge and checked with timing light with timing set at o and 15 degree BTDC respectively.

Currently in Paris on the way back to NL

I will open up the logs later today.

Could also Log in remotely afterwards as Im only an hour in time difference.

I have done a few 3S motors

RLP01 more than happy for you to remote in as well thank-you

Please find attached several trigger scope's with different filter settings applied.

I've also taken a video so you can see what's happening the car seems to cycle at 226rpm on crank and then the rpm drops to 0 loses signal and then picks up again at 226 rpm.

The trigger scope drops as well after it cycles.

I suggest trying to change from cam level to cam pulse on the 2nd trigger (rising edge) .

Also the Crank trigger polarity is reversed in the scope.

Coul you also upload a normal log when cranking.

I think the crank trigger polarity may be correct but how it shows up depends on how the missing tooth was done (blank vs actually missing) to have the scope show up like it does. I've seen it done both ways and both ways the car still runs as it's looking at the edges rising or falling, not the high or low dwell areas.

I see you also posted on the Link forums and there you stated it started up on starter fluid? How is that possible with the triggers losing rpm signal? I do see the minimum on your hall signal for the trigger is around .3-.4V and I don't recall what the threshold is for link to recognize tooth trigger edges - but I think it's 1-2V. The vastly fluctuating RPM in your log does make this seem trigger related.

The trigger RPM filtering won't have any affect on the trigger scope - it's if the ecu averages the RPM over multiple TDC points or not (filter level 2 - 2 TDC points, filter 3 - 3 TDC points, etc.). The lowest rpm filter that you can apply is usually the best. I agree the cam sync should be cam pulse 1x with rising edge.

The tune you posted here is very different than the one you posted on the link forums. What's the story there? 130 across the board for your VE table isn't right, and 14.25 is not the stoichiometric value for ethanol free pump petrol.

The scopes look clean enough that you shouldn't be seeing the rpm fluctuation I wouldn't think, but it is what it is obviously and the logging capability of the G4+ isn't the best to capture all data. Who made the trigger kit and how is it mounted? What does the cam sync setup look like? Have you double checked the cams have not skipped a tooth? The degree of offset is kind of weird so I'm guessing it's a custom trigger setup of some kind?

Do you have access to an oem distributor base to put in to try a different trigger setup (would also require wiring to reluctors in the stock distributor)?

I primarily build and tune 3SGTE engines since 2002. Regarding your engine build:

There should be no machining required to mount a gen3 oil pump wheel onto a gen2 oil pump. The oil pump should have been upgraded to a 99 5SFE oil pump for higher volume and the oil pressure relief should be modified with a screw in relieve valve spring retainer in stead of the snap ring. The Kelford 270s are Gen2 spec cams with only 9.6mm lift so should not have required any clearancing on the Gen3 cylinder head (no clearancing typically required on the Gen3/4/5 heads until 10mm+ lift).

I am in pacific standard time (GMT-8) so that might be an issue depending on how your schedule works. I have remote tuned cars all over the world though, so let me know what you want to do and I'm sure we can figure out a time. I do normally charge $150/hr, but I would like to just help understand what's happening with those triggers for 20 min or so if you're game to do so at no cost. The rest of the tune could definitely use work, however, but making it run is the first goal.

You cant use Cam level sync in this case because your cam level is always low at tooth 1. You will have to use cam pulse 1X sync mode with rising edge.

Good morning chaps,

Firstly thank-you for your replies especially given on a Sunday, i will try and answer all your questions as best i can. However i think we can all agree I'm not a tuner but here goes: -

The crank and cam trigger assembly kit is made by a USA based company called "Racer X Fabrication" and is a 36-1 actually missing tooth and its mounted to the crank pulley (its been fitted perfect I've checked for any off balance) . The Hall sensors supplied with the kit are ZF and are defiantly wired corrected (blue is shielded ground, brown is dedicated +8V and black goes to Trig 1 Crank of Trig 2 Cam). I do not understand polarity settings with a Hall sensor.

Starter fluid yes engine was running for a very short period i wanted to check if i had timing correct, mainly just burnt my hand and nearly caught very thing on fire the intake plenum was a fire ball. (not something i want to be doing again). Was is just luck?

Regarding the tune or not, i've made several changes after watching webinars on modelled v traditional and courses on stand alone tuning which Andrea presents (basically i was hoping it was an error i picked up somewhere) . The car was originally mapped on a distributor however was losing signal at high rpm so that's where my thought basis was regarding an error i had made.

The stoich was changed because in the UK fuel is no longer available without any ethanol its all either E5 or E10 and the current fuel which i flushed through and sits in the tank is E5 (we call it super unleaded over here) that's the reason it was changed. If this is incorrect i will change it back to 14.7.

Regarding the engine build all i can say they are a very reputable engine company in the UK specialising in historic F1 cars etc.. The engine was built some 12-15 years ago and i remember them saying that, might of miss heard them so apologies. Regarding the oil pump again the guy was ex TRD racing Toyota Germany so i just went along with what he said, at the time i had no idea 5SFE parts were compatible.

I'm off all day today if you have availability, and i agree the current tune in the ECU if you can call it a tune needs alot of work, my aim was have it running in my workshop and then load on a trailer and take to a rolling road, however i've noticed in the UK a lot of old tuning companies have stopped trading or simply do not offer support to the older G4+ Ecu. If you can map it remotely i would love to hear more about it, i'm not worried about cost at this point i just need it going and running.

I will change settings to Cam pulse 1x today and upload a further log as requested.

Again i really appreciate everyone's help thank-you

Drop us a line through instagram. I will pick it up

VPRengineering

I have a little bit of time so i could Log in (the next hour or so i have avaiability)

VPR engineering i dont have instagram i've emailed you from your web site

I've changed the the cam sensor to Cam pulse 1x and it started on the button i cannot believe it. That's the first time in over 8 years thank-you to everyone.

VE on fuel table adjusted at idle to 55 is quiet happily ticks over t 0.95lamda.

Would be really interested still to remote in and tune etc..

I will up load a log file shortly, thankyou

Thats marvelous Stuart.

Glad it worked.

Now just to verify go through the trigger calibration sequence explained in the help file [F1]

Send me a message on whatsapp if you want or you can call my cell phone +1-503-730-9917 between now (10:10AM Pacific standard time) and 8 hours from now.

Not a big fan of the Racer X trigger kits as I have seen more issues with them vs. OEM reluctor type setups, but it's what you have so that's what I would go with.