Discussion and questions related to the course EFI Wiring Fundamentals
I'm looking to do a budget harness. I'm looking to use tefzel wire and Deutsche connectors. Dr25. But more than likely not following a milspec as far as sealed boots. Firewall connector and unlikely to concentric twist.
So I'm trying to find the cost effective way to crimp size 20-16-12 terminals? From what I under stand I will need two crimpers? Regardless if I choose dmc or Deutsche.
Lastly I was going to pot all the oem components and use Deutsche connectors to avoid having to buy another crimper for oem (Toyota) terminals. Does anyone have a detailed step by step guide for potting? It seems very simple which concerns me as I must be missing something.
One crimp tool from DMC will do all three sizes. THe AF8 with the 163 turret head. Some people (us included) use the smaller AFM8 for size 20 DTM terminals, but that is only because we have them inhouse.
The other option us to purchase three different low cost tools (one for each size). If you can afford it, the AF8 is the way to go as it is the proper tool for the job.
agreed! AF8 with TH163 turret will do all of your terminals for dtm, dt, and dtp
Potting is pretty simple in a way. This will probably cost more and spend more time doing the work and will add bulk all around if you're using dtm connectors. But since you said you're on a budget, ASL/ASX connectors are out of the question.
The way I pot is, depending on how much space I have, I cut part of the sensor connector side wall off (neatly as possible), sand all the inside of the housing, then tin the terminals and the wire leads. Next solder the leads on the terminal as nicely as possible, be careful because you can damage the sensor if you hold it too long. Apply some small heat shrink around the soldered wire and put the cut off wall back to where you cut it off and wrap with kapton to hold in place. Pot the little bastard and let it cure either in front of heater or for 24 hours. Wear gloves and have fun
Also, if on a budget, the Amphenol AT, ATM, and ATP series are equivalent interchangeable parts, but can usually be found cheaper. (When buying small quantities I've generally found Waytek to stock them cheapest, followed by Mouser).
Note - Amphenol and Deutsch are both owned by TE.
In terms of tooling, the DMC TH163 turret will work, however is not the correct turret specified by DMC for use on those contacts. The correct turrets/positioners (as per DMC) are listed below:
To substitute the Deutsch contact part numbers for Amphenol equivalents, replace the first two characters ("04") with "AT", eg 0462-201-16141 becomes AT62-201-16141.
There is some used options on ebay at a reasonable price.
I've bought an AFM8 and some positioners (all used but in good condition) and it is working very well.
I don't think Amphenol is owned by TE. I believe you are thinking of AMP Incorporated which was bought by TE. Amphenol is a competitor of TE's but they do make many parts that have the same standards.
I agree the turrets mentioned are made specifically for the job, but many of us use the TH163 or the TH1A (i prefer the 163) with zero issues. Food for thought, Deutsch recommends their crimper HDT-48-00 for these contacts, so technically we are all wrong haha jk
Maybe someone can show a crimp difference between the 2 turrets to enlighten us as I have stuck to the status quo when it came to DTx connectors
is there any advantage to the DMC vs the deutsch crimper? (deutsch seems to be a fair bit cheaper).
for now i will keep an eye out for a second hand crimper as that would be ideal.
The HDT-48-00 is similar to a AF8 but with a FIXED UH2-5 turret.
the DMC crimper is more versatile, and with the TH163 turret (I also use that one) you don't have to adjust anything.
If you guys use for a long time and its working (and its working well), I think that it shouldn't be a problem.
Maybe in some more critical applications like aircrafts and warfare vehicles we should use the recommended tools for the required application....
I just bought an AF8 + TH163 and a bunch of DT, DTM and DTPs to keep going further in this amazing world of milspec wiring.
A turret (or positioner) is not the most critical part, it just old the terminal in position.
In that regard the TH163 does an excellent job and keep the crimp where it is expected to be.
Keeping the crimper itself within spec is much more important.
what about using HDP20 bulkhead connectors as a budget firewall connector? good news is they use a size 16 terminal.
was looking at a 24-31 connector but if I am able to crimp size 20 terminals then a 24-47 could be a very nice balance.
Yes a HDP20 would do as long as you understand their limits.
what are those limitations?
I know it is a thermo plastic body so will be slightly weaker than an aluminium body.
is there anything else I have over looked?
Ryan, thanks for the correction. You are correct, I was thinking of AMP. Amphenol is indeed a competitor to TE.
In terms of turrets, I also use the TH163 it works fine.
Not sure about the limitations of the HDP series, but when needing higher density circular connectors I've found that proper surplus mil-spec connectors can be had very cheaply. Even if purchased new - depending on spec/series - they cost around the same as equivalently sized HDP20 connectors. If you want to go that route, the tooling you have will work with D38999 series connectors (for contact sizes 12, 16, 20).
Arashi, thanks for your post that you talk about the compatibility between deutsch and amphenol connectors. I wasn't aware that I could find the same deutsch DTP for half the price when produced by Amphenol.
I searched about some official documentation and found this:
Would be useful for a lot of people that is seeking for some good quality stuff but have a tight budget (including myself).
Check the price comparison attached.
I do agree that the AT series from amphenol are great connector. But me personally Im a brand whore lol I will say that mouser is really expensive, $7+ for just the pin side of the DTP is crazy. If you're not up for opening an account with a distributor, you can buy from prowire for less than $3 for that same connector.
When you're sourcing parts, don't stick to one place. For example, I buy my DTM connector bodies from one place then I buy the locks and the contacts from a completely different place. Granted, that's not the best idea for buying low quantities since you'll make up the cost difference in shipping, but just keep that in mind to browse around. Mouser has really cool parts, but their deutsch catalog is overpriced
There is the DT, DTM and DTPs with and without heatshrink boot adaptor.
It is possible to seal the back of the connector using the one that doens't have the adaptor?
DTP females don't have shrink boot adapter option. The connectors are already sealed though. They do sell a boot DTP2S-BT but I have never used them.
For the DTM and DT without the shrink boot, your kinda out of luck unless you want shrink over the locking tab making removal a little harder. I personally only buy shrink boot adapter connectors. But again, the DT series are pretty rugged when it comes to being weather proof. I know Harley motorcycles use them on there cruisers unsealed without issues
The main reason that I heat shrink the DT series connectors is if they are going to be in an environment that will have exposure to either fuels and oils, to help protect against the fluids from wicking into the connector through the wire grommets, or higher temps (such as EGT probes) where the actual wires insulation needs another layer of protection. The other reason for using the boots is for strain relief on the wire, especially if you are using 22g or smaller wire. If the connectors are going to be in a location that they are securely mounted and not exposed to environmental extremes, then I do not worry about the boots.
I just found a good prince on DTM06-6S-E007 and DTM06-4S-E007, which boots would be the best for this application?
Shrink Boot Adapter Size: 16.15 x 13.23
Shrink Boot 202K111-25-0 Size: As Supplied 17.00 / After Unrestricted Recovery 6.9
So this boot should work ok, right?
This datasheet doesn't have any info about the shrink boot adapter size.
will the DMC AF8 with th163 crimp the terminals for AS connectors?
And whats the difference between the DT, DTM and DTP connectors? is it the size of the terminals they will take?
You can buy pre concentric twisted cable in 3, 12, 21 sizes plus more.
It is all black with numbered wires and I find it very handy for building looms quickly.
You can source it from Ashdown and Ingrams in Australia.
They also do a triple layered glue impregnated heatshrink with a 3:1 ratio which is very handy for sealing connectors onto your harness.
The DMC AF8 and TH163 will crimp size 20 AS contacts (Pin: 38943-20 / Socket: 38941-20).
For the smaller contacts you need a M22520/2-01 tool (eg DMC AFM8 or Astro 615717), as well as positioners for the contacts you're planning to use. For example, for AS Size 22 pin contacts (#38943-22) you would need an M22520/2-07 positioner (DMC K40 / Astro 615723). Likewise for Size 22 Socket contacts (#38941-22) you need an M22520/2-09 (DMC K42 / Astro 615725) positioner, and so on.
Yes, the difference between DTM, DT and DTP is the size of contacts they accept being 20, 16 and 12 respectively.
Thank you very much for that, clears things up a great deal.
Just ordered a AFM8 just need to find the turrets i will need.
I also have a crimp tool designed for harting, its an astro tool 621205, im trying to figure out if this tool can be a substitute for the DMC AF8, would you happen to know? as i already have the tool if i can find the appropriate turrets this would certainly work out beter than buying a new AF8 tool.
DMC AF8 = Astro Tool 615708 (MIL-DTL-22520/1-01)
DMC AFM8 = Astro Tool 615717 (MIL-DTL-22520/2-01)
Do you know the range of your crimper (wire gauge) ?